3 min read
Sally Baker
3 min read
Sally Baker
In this latest video, our founder, Sally Baker, shares insights from her conversation with Mark Cousins, Fractional CMO and advisor.
With extensive experience leading high-performing marketing functions at multiple companies including Marqeta, Mark offers practical wisdom for marketing leaders at every stage.
Watch the videoWe kicked off the conversation with a big question: What’s really going on in B2B marketing right now?
Mark’s take is clear and it hits home for a lot of marketers we work with.
“Marketing is a challenging place to be in at the moment… It’s flipped to a very return-on-investment-now function.”
He describes how the pressure for short-term results has pushed many teams into a reactive mode. Instead of building brand and driving long-term value, marketers are constantly responding to pipeline gaps and internal demands for immediate impact.
The result? A shift away from strategy and creativity and towards quick fixes, tactical campaigns, and endless reporting.
“Marketing has been driven down to that very data-driven, tactical corner… The pipe’s not where it needs to be, so everyone’s asking: what campaign are we kicking out next?”
Mark argues that strong marketing leadership means knowing when to switch off the distractions, whether that’s a low-impact campaign, unnecessary meetings, or internal noise pulling your team in too many directions.
Instead, marketers need to carve out space to focus on what matters: brand, creativity, and long-term value creation.
Once we’d talked about the current state of play, I asked Mark: How important is experimentation in B2B marketing today?
His answer: essential - but most teams aren’t creating the space to do it.
“You should view marketing as being an experiments lab.”
It’s a simple idea, but a powerful shift in mindset. Rather than constantly chasing outcomes, the best marketing teams are thinking like scientists: testing new channels, challenging assumptions, and staying open to what might work next.
But the challenge is time. As Mark puts it, most teams are already “exhausted by the to-do list.” The day-to-day demands of marketing: Slack messages, sales requests, reporting, internal fire-fighting leave little space to think, let alone try something new.
Experimentation doesn’t have to be huge. It might be testing a new content format, trying a different channel for distribution, or challenging whether a long-running campaign is still delivering value. The key is to create room for it and make it part of your process, not an afterthought.
“If you've got a gut hunch, you're going to have to back yourself and give it running time.”
The takeaway? Make experimentation deliberate. Treat it like a core part of your strategy not just something you’ll do when there’s time.
One of the most valuable parts of the conversation came when I asked Mark what advice he’d give to someone early in their marketing career, especially in fintech.
His response was full of practical takeaways. This isn’t about chasing titles or hoping your work gets noticed. It’s about being proactive, useful, and relentlessly curious.
“Know the product better than anyone else in the organisation.”
That was his first point. Whether you’re in design, content, or campaigns, real marketing impact starts with understanding what you’re actually selling. Mark suggests spending time with sales and solutions teams, talking to customers, and learning how the product solves real problems.
The second piece of advice is to find ways to bring value beyond your job title.
“Try and own something that’s bigger than just your discipline.”
That could mean setting up a regular cross-functional session with go-to-market teams or creating a shared space for refining pitches. The goal is to be someone who connects the dots across teams and builds momentum internally.
Finally, Mark talks about the importance of energy and ideas. That, and knowing how to use tools like AI to solve real problems inside your marketing team. Mark makes it clear that understanding the tools is one thing, but knowing how they drive value for the business is what sets you apart.
This advice is especially relevant for fintech marketers working in small teams or high-growth environments. Your ability to step outside your lane and make yourself useful across the business is what helps you grow and helps marketing earn its seat at the table.
At this point, I asked Mark a question that always sparks useful thinking:
If you were starting a marketing function from scratch today, what would you prioritise?
His answers challenged a lot of the usual assumptions.
First, demand generation. Mark’s view is that it shouldn’t always be your first move, especially if you’re targeting enterprise clients.
“I would think long and hard about whether you build a demand gen function from day one... or whether you put that investment into wider marketing or brand building.”
Demand gen is expensive. And if no one knows who you are, those campaigns will struggle to deliver. Brand comes first.
The second point is about building the right team. You don’t necessarily need a CMO from day one, but you do need people who can think strategically and deliver.
“You can do more with three people than you can with six or nine if they’ve got the right mindset.”
Mark recommends starting with a small, flexible team of generalists, supported by trusted freelancers or agencies who can jump in on specific projects when needed.
And finally, it’s about setting the vision. Where are you trying to get to, and how will you bring the rest of the business with you?
“Where are you going to be in six months, twelve months, eighteen months — and how do you bring the C-suite with you?”
That alignment makes everything easier. When leadership is bought into your direction and outcomes, you’re more likely to have the space and support to do the work that matters.
AI is everywhere in marketing conversations right now. But it’s not always clear what to do with it or how to turn it into something genuinely useful.
When I asked Mark how he sees AI changing the way we work, his answer was one of the most grounded takes I’ve heard.
“It’s not enough to say you’re using Gemini to write copy or a tool to splice video. Your C-suite wants to know your AI strategy.”
According to Mark, that strategy starts with a simple audit. Look at your marketing function and ask:
From there, you can explore where AI can plug gaps, automate processes, or free up your team’s time for better thinking.
But it goes beyond tools and templates.
“Imagine if you could systemise conversations happening across sales, product, and solutions — and use AI to pull out key soundbites that inform your content strategy.”
That’s where the real opportunity lies. Not just in speeding up production, but in capturing insight and turning it into smarter, more effective content.
Mark’s point is clear. AI isn’t a shortcut. It’s a way to be more consistent, more responsive, and more relevant — if you take the time to apply it in the right places.
There’s a common assumption that brand is the long game — something you invest in slowly, while focusing on quicker wins through demand generation.
Mark sees it differently and his belief is that brand building is actually the short game.
He’s seen first-hand how going all in on demand gen without building brand first is a tough route. If people don’t know who you are, it’s hard to get traction, no matter how well targeted your campaigns are.
Instead, Mark suggests flipping the approach. Start by building the brand and that doesn’t mean logos or T-shirts.
“It has to be about giving value back into the marketplace. Educational resources. Communities. Thought leadership. It all adds up.”
The results won’t come instantly, but they will come. Brand creates consistency. It builds recognition. And when done well, it creates demand on its own. While demand gen will give spikes of demand, brand will give a steady upward curve.
In a crowded market, brand is what helps you stand out. It’s what makes you feel familiar before anyone clicks your ads or reads your content. And it’s what makes customers want to work with you before the first sales call even happens.
When we talk about brand in B2B, it often gets reduced to surface-level elements: tone of voice, visual identity, maybe a strapline. But when I asked Mark how he defines brand, he went straight to the heart of it.
“Brand is about how you build a real connection with your audience.”
That connection is what drives recall, trust, and relevance, especially in a market where buying cycles are long and decisions are complex.
Mark makes the point that brand should serve a bigger purpose than simply getting your name out there. It should be useful. It should deliver value before someone becomes a customer.
“How are you educating your market? How are you building communities? How are you showing up consistently in ways that matter?”
This kind of brand building takes commitment. It means creating content and experiences that aren’t tied to immediate conversion. It means listening to what your audience cares about and finding ways to show up with insight, not just messaging.
And importantly, it means understanding that brand isn’t just marketing’s job.
“It has to be built across the organisation, from the product to the customer experience to what your sales team is saying on the phone.”
Done well, brand becomes a magnet. It brings people in, keeps you top of mind, and creates demand before you even launch a campaign.
Thought leadership is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot in B2B marketing. But when I asked Mark what it actually means and how to do it well, his answer was refreshingly clear.
“Thought leadership is really about where your industry is going. It’s about having a viewpoint on the future.”
It’s not about being the loudest voice or constantly publishing content for the sake of it. It’s about helping your audience make sense of change, see around corners, and understand what’s coming next. And crucially, it’s not about you.
“Thought leadership is about giving value back. It’s not about talking about your product. It’s not about talking about yourself.”
Mark makes the case for building content that answers real questions, addresses uncertainty, and provides clarity. That might be a deep dive into trends you’re seeing, lessons from your customer base, or simply sharing what your team is learning as you go.
The best thought leadership often comes from people closest to the work. Mark recommends giving your internal experts a platform and making space for their voices to be heard, even if it’s imperfect.
The goal isn’t just to publish. It’s to earn trust. And that happens when your audience consistently sees that your content helps them think more clearly and act more confidently.
We couldn’t have a conversation about B2B marketing without touching on ROI.
But instead of getting into attribution models or funnel reporting, Mark focused on a bigger problem, that too many teams are chasing the wrong numbers.
Page views, impressions, and likes might look good in a deck, but they don’t always reflect the progress that matters. Especially when your goal is to win a specific set of high value customers.
“Where we probably need to drive to is… what are the metrics associated with the customers that we really want to win?”
That might mean looking at share of voice across a key account list. It might mean tracking the number of meaningful conversations with senior buyers, or how many people from a key segment are engaging with your content.
Whatever you measure, the important thing is to make sure it reflects your actual goals, not just surface level activity.
Mark also makes the point that marketing teams need to lead this thinking. Work with sales, product, and leadership to define what good looks like, and how progress will be measured.
“Those are the questions marketing needs to be asking. Not just what can we track, but what should we be tracking.”
Because in the end, proving ROI isn’t about showing how much you did, it’s about showing the value of what you chose to do.
Whether you’re building a marketing team from scratch or rethinking the way your current one operates, this conversation with Mark Cousins is packed with insights that go deeper than the usual talking points. From defining brand in a meaningful way, to making space for experimentation, to getting clarity on what really matters — there’s plenty here to take back to your next team meeting.
If you’d like to hear the full conversation, you can watch the entire video or sign up to our newsletter below to get exclusive early access to new interviews as they drop.
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